Going to church…
Home › Forums › Discussion › Going to church…
Tagged: church
| Author | Posts |
|---|---|
| Author | Posts |
| February 20, 2012 at 4:32 pm #56399 | |
|
Gordon |
I’ve been reading through Prose Works, and right now I’m on Retrospection and Introspection. Today I came across this passage, from page 45, which I was intrigued by:
What do you all think about this? It got me thinking… if I’m not mistaken I believe Mrs. Eddy only ever attended The Mother Church something like three times; she was definitely not a regular attendee. I’m interested in some of the historical context. What did she do on most Sunday mornings? Did she attend a church in her area? Or did she stay home? And does this passage from her autobiography imply the eventual elimination of church? |
| February 20, 2012 at 5:08 pm #56401 | |
|
MikeDavis |
Hi Gordon, See this article I wrote for the historical context of Mrs. Eddy’s statement about laying off “material organization.” http://www.marybakereddylibrary.org/collections/research/ask-a-researcher/church-today To assume that Mrs. Eddy meant by the statement you’ve quoted that she believed that The Mother Church and its branches should eventually be dissolved or eliminated is to completely misinterpret her meaning. It’s clear from the historical evidence that she came to view the church she had established in 1879 as having a “material organization” that needed to be laid off. She believed she had accomplished that by the organization of The Mother Church in 1892, and there are documents in the archives in which she describes The Mother Church as being “spiritually organized” instead of “materially organized.” Mrs. Eddy did not attend church, although she encouraged the Christian Scientists in her household who were not needed by her 24/7 to join and become active in First Church of Christ, Scientist, Concord, New Hampshire (when she was living at Pleasant View). I think it is important to realize that Mrs. Eddy was a huge celebrity in her later years and was constantly hounded by Christian Scientists and the general public. It would have been counterproductive and distracting in a number of ways for her to be showing up at Christian Science services. Mrs. Eddy did participate in what one might be called “devotional services” in her household where she and the household would sing hymns and share inspiration.
|
| February 20, 2012 at 5:40 pm #56405 | |
|
Gordon |
That is why I asked! I was not trying to imply any position at all; more trying to just probe for her real meaning. So thank you for sharing all this great detail as well as your article. This is very enlightening. |
| February 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm #56406 | |
|
MikeDavis |
Hi Gordon, I did not mean to imply that you personally were implying that The Mother Church should eventually be dissolved. I worded my response the way I did because there have been some who have falsely assumed that from the statement you’ve quoted. I was arguing against the validity of that point of view, not assuming that you personally believed it. |
| February 23, 2012 at 9:37 am #56608 | |
|
bearingup |
Long before Twitter, IM and text messaging grammar came into being, I once heard this: “ch – u r – ch”…now there’s a cool definition of church that we can all get into! It’s not outside, it’s within. |
| February 23, 2012 at 9:55 am #56611 | |
|
Annette-D |
That’s funny you should mention ch-ur-ch. I drove past a church the other day and on their yard sign it said: It made me smile. Not very subtle is it? :) |
| February 23, 2012 at 1:52 pm #56623 | |
|
Kelsey |
I think in this situation as in all false claims, it’s important to handle the animal magnetism. It’s clear that we all want to understand what church really is and how it is “the structure of Truth and Love,” but it is also just as important to face down the claims that church can be boring or inactive. |
| March 4, 2012 at 11:10 am #57316 | |
|
daphiney |
Ben, Why don’t you start your own church. introduce new ideas, music and fresh perspectives on things…., this may sound easier said then done, but i’ve heard of a few people that did just that, and it worked. |
| March 5, 2012 at 12:37 pm #57395 | |
|
Gordon |
Speaking to the idea of just forming your own church: A little while ago T4T had a live talk titled Making Peace: in your life and the world, which featured Libby Hoffman, who is an absolutely incredible peacemaker and social activist. She talked a bit in that chat about how she had all these huge, incredible, wonderful, vast plans for implementing new peacemaking solutions in the world. But a huge turning point for her was when she heard God speak to her directly, saying: “It’s easier to plan for peace for the whole world tomorrow, than to take the opportunities we have to make peace today.” Likewise with church, it is MUCH easier to fantasize about all the ways we could do things better ourselves if we just get rid of all those pesky, outdated church members from back home and did things our own way. You could make it more inclusive, more lively, more active, more real, etc. And there are a thousand ideas for how to do this. But how inclusive is something that’s founded on the basis of exclusion? It’s comparatively MUCH harder to work within an existing framework to change it than it is to simply throw it all away and start fresh. But I believe that the latter approach, namely an early decision that you can do everything better yourself, does not have a spiritual foundation of unity. It does not have a spiritual foundation of inclusion. If we want to include more people, how much more can we be doing with the few members we already have, rather than merely discarding them and trying to start with a clean slate? Marta Greenwood, the (now previous) president of The Mother Church, gave a lecture at my hometown last spring. One of the things she talked about was how when people find themselves in unfortunate circumstances, what do they do? They change the circumstances. So if they’re in a bad job, they just get a new job. If they’re in a bad relationship, they get a new relationship. If they’re in a bad city, they move to a new city. But then to their dismay, in very little time, they find all the same problems with the new job, or the new relationship, or the new city. So what do they do? They change it again. And again, as necessary. But just changing the outward like this never solves any problems; it only makes them drag on further. She suggested, in effect, that rather than merely changing the outward conditions, we focus on standing still (“Be still and know that I am God”) and changing the inward conditions. And from that basis, the outward then follows naturally. And I agree with her, and think that same principle applies to church as well. Change starts from within. I won’t say “it may take more work” or anything so timid. The fact is it DOES take a LOT more work. But it’s the only way that really works in the long run. |
| March 5, 2012 at 1:24 pm #57412 | |
|
John |
Hey friends! Just wanted to mention that this Thursday, March 8, I’m hosting a G+ hangout on the topic of church. The full information is in this thread http://bit.ly/zSyU2Q but I wanted to mention it here because I think our conversation on Thursday could very easily run parallel with the motives and prayers behind the conversation on this thread. Thanks for all yall’s love for the idea of church – we can never be separated from any of God’s nature, and church is certainly an effect of God. |
| March 5, 2012 at 7:00 pm #57464 | |
|
BradCarling |
This is in response both to daphiney and Gordon. First, let me say that daphiney’s point about starting a new church certainly has quite a logical appeal at first glance. But when you think about it, how much change can really be brought about by starting a new CS branch church/society? The basic order of the services is tightly controlled through the Manual and does not provide for much creativity. Sure, you could certainly make the service atmosphere more informal, have a social hour after the Sunday service, etc., but beyond that, how much more different can any CS branch church really be? Two examples of CS branches which have been somewhat successful in modifying the “flavor” of the CS church are the CS Society in San Juan Capistrano, CA and First Church Brentwood, MO. Both of these churches have some kind of social hour following the service and have “loosened up” the atmosphere of the church service. Brentwood has incorporated the CS Fellowship group into their branch. My understanding is that before the CS Fellowship joined the Brentwood church, the church was just about ready to fold. The Fellowship has brought a real revival to the Brentwood church. The San Juan Capistrano Society has a website where you can see some of the changes they have brought to the CS church service and structure. They publish a Sunday service bulletin and you can see how they have “tweaked” the style of the service. Both churches, however, still manage to stay within the framework of the Manual. This is a really interesting topic and I look forward to other responses. |
| March 5, 2012 at 9:06 pm #57465 | |
|
Gordon |
BradCarling – I’ve heard of all the good work that the San Juan Capistrano Society is doing, and one of these days when I’m out in California I’m going to have to stop by and see for myself. They’re garnering quite a reputation. And unfortunately, a website can only tell you so much; a church is something you really have to experience firsthand. So I’d be eager to see if that society lives up to its great reputation. |
| March 5, 2012 at 9:52 pm #57466 | |
|
Lisa |
Thanks for these great posts. So to the point, and so from the heart honest. I’m thinking it’s awesome that the full range of CS church activities support us in being the very best healers we can be in everything we’re doing, with whoever we’re meeting in the community, and whatever we’re embracing in the world. |
| March 6, 2012 at 2:00 am #57473 | |
|
Courtenay |
Hi everyone, I remember saying something like this in another discussion recently, so I’m sorry if I’m sounding repetitive. But it’s just something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. I’ve wondered for a long time whether the “Present” Order of Services can or should be changed, or not; I can see valid and persuasive arguments on both sides. But now I’m wondering: is this really the point? Is the structure and style of the service really the primary factor that attracts – truly attracts – people to church and to Christian Science? The thing is, people’s personal opinions and tastes regarding church services – how they would ideally like them to be – are always going to differ. And it’s not just an age/generational thing; two people in the same age group can have completely different views on what would make the service more enjoyable for them. We could argue back and forth forever about what “should” or “shouldn’t” be done, and still never come up with a style or format that would suit everyone. But what do we really want people to be coming to church for in the first place? What do we want ourselves and others to get out of it, on a deeper level? Do we want to be there because it’s cool, fun, entertaining, exciting, and we get to see and hang out with all our friends? Or do we want to be there because we’ve caught at least a glimpse of what this is all about: because we’ve seen Christian Science transforming and healing our lives in a way that nothing else can, and we’re starting to realise how much the whole world needs this? And how much we, as Christian Scientists, need to stick together and support each other – regardless of differences in age or taste or personal opinions? Because in the end, the only thing that’s going to make our church services attractive – that’s going to draw people who are there for the long haul – is that power of the Christ working in each one of us. If we’re just trying to change things on the surface to make church more appealing to us, without that deeper transformation in our hearts (like what Gordon said earlier), we’re really not going to get very far. |
| March 6, 2012 at 9:33 am #57480 | |
|
Annette-D |
There’s a woman who has been attending our church from time to time–not every Sunday, but many Sundays. She went to a CS lecture we had back in October. At first she’d come to the service, then get right out. Not too long ago, she brought another woman with her–turns out it was her sister. Afterwards, they stayed around, so I talked with her. That’s when I found out she had been at our October lecture. She asked me about how CS treatment works. She said the ideas “intrigued” her. Ok, so as far as this discussion goes, I think we forget how radical the ideas are that are in our lesson sermon. This woman said the ideas “intrigued” her. She didn’t say, the ideas intrigue me, but your service puts me to sleep. :) Obviously, she’s there for the ideas, and thought they were interesting enough that she invited her sis along one of the Sundays. |
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.




