Revelation and CS theology

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January 24, 2012 at 12:25 am #54087
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Gabriel

The recent thread “Christian Science: Is it a science” had some discussion about the process of revelation as well as the limitations of the material senses in our efforts to understand and comprehend spiritual ideas. Assuming that one takes this at face value, then to me it makes sense that CS cannot be subjected to the methodology of human science, because CS theology argues that human processes are inherently limited in their ability to explain existence.

However, if this is believed to be the case then my question is how does divine revelation fit within the philosophical context of CS theology? I will elaborate and also try to give a more concrete example, since that question may be too vague.

First my understanding of CS theology is that God is unaware of the specific details of mortal existence since these details are an illusion that does not exist. For instance I’ve been told that the chicken slaughter houses that I rode past recently are an illusion of material sense and as such it is not a condition that God would specifically be aware of. Instead the way that we connect with God is through gain an apprehension of spiritual reality, the grandeur and beauty of a sunset for example. Or as Mrs. Eddy wrote: “The Indians caught some glimpses of the underlying reality, when they called a certain beautiful lake ‘the smile of the Great Spirit.’”

So my first proposition is that CS teaches that real existence is spiritual and perfect. Thus God is not aware of the specific details of our human experience, although we do see reflections of God in what we experience right now. But God him/herself is not aware of things like Newt Gingrich asking his wife for an “open marriage” or Tim Tebow’s performance in the NFL playoffs. If I am mistaken in my understanding of CS theology here then conclusions that I draw from this proposition will of course be incorrect. So please correct me if I’m wrong on this point.

My second proposition is that CS teaches that we are able to gain a better understanding of God through spiritualizing our thinking. When Mrs. Eddy writes:

In the year 1866, I discovered the Christ Science or divine laws of Life, Truth, and Love, and named my discovery Christian Science. God had been graciously preparing me during many years for the reception of this final revelation of the absolute divine Principle of scientific mental healing.

The preparation that God had been making was not the details of things she struggled with in her life (such as the death of her first husband, her child being taken away, her struggles with ill health, etc.), instead those experiences are viewed as things which helped her grow and spiritualize her thinking by overcoming adversity. So I can see how this type of revelation is still consistent with a God that is not aware of the details of human existence. It is not that God wrote the exact words in S&H and delivered them to Mrs. Eddy through supernatural means (a la the Book of Mormon), instead God revealed the ideas to Mrs. Eddy which she then tried to express in words which ended up as the book S&H.

Now if anything about the first two propositions that I have stated seems incorrect in regards to what God knows about the human experience and how divine revelation works then it would be good to correct my understanding of these points.

But if I have stated CS theology correctly above, then my question is how does CS explain the virgin birth of Jesus? It seems to me that this was something that would require direct intervention of God within the context of both Jesus’s and Mary’s human experience. I use the virgin birth as a specific example, but other aspects of Jesus’s life could apply as well. If Jesus had attained an understanding of reality that placed him on a different plane of existence then how could he interact with the material world? Mrs. Eddy’s revelation seems consistent with her teaching of CS theology. She personally grew in her understanding of spiritual life and by this she was able to express the ideas of CS. But I don’t see the life of Jesus as being consistent with this same theology. Instead it seems that Jesus’s existence (assuming that the mythology of the Gospels is accepted as historically accurate) represents a state of affairs whereby God was aware of details of the material world.

As I noted I thought about this within the context of the question of whether CS is a science. I am willing to accept what CS teaches about God not being aware of the material world as an explanation for why CS cannot be subjected to the rigors of the scientific method. And this also allows God not to be blamed for allowing apparent evil to persist in the world, since the theology teaches that God is unaware of this apparent evil because in reality evil is non-existent and so God is unaware of it. But by this same set of logic I think that it becomes difficult to explain the teachings of the Bible, particularly the historical/mythological details of Jesus’s life in a consistent way. So I would be interested to read any ideas that people might have on this topic.

January 24, 2012 at 9:57 am #54089
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brojoh

Wow, that is one thought provoking discussion. I think I might be able to shine some light on your thinking of CS Theology.
Let’s start with a passage from S&H page 269:14 “Metaphysics resolves things into thoughts, and exchanges the objects of sense for the ideas of Soul.” As well as the Bible Hab 1:13 “Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity:”
I agree God is not aware of the minutia of material existence and of matter, but that is not to say he is not aware of the spiritual qualities from which these illusions of material sense seem to emanate from. Take the chicken slaughter house, I’m not to sure God is aware of the material structure and procedures going on in there. But God certainly is aware of His divine ability to care for his children, to love them, nourishing them. Now you might say, “what about the chickens?” And I would ask, is their life in matter? any more than man? For that matter is our nourishment in matter, flesh? (You might want to refer to S&H 338:12 “Admit the common hypothesis that food is the nutriment of life, and there follows the necessity for another admission in the opposite direction, — that food has power to destroy Life, God, through a deficiency or an excess, a quality or a quantity.”)
What about someone who has transgress the oath of marriage and has committed adultery? (Is asking for a more open marriage.) Does God know the specifics of the offense? My question is where did this offense really take place? In a hotel room or in thought? In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus addresses this very question. The Hebraic Law of the Ten commandments had been manipulated and rationalized but human conjecture and religious piety. So Jesus revisited it and made it plain for everyone. See Matt 5:27,28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
I believe Mrs Eddy’s use of the term Science is because of the absolute certainty that when one prays with and understanding of God as ever-present Mind, all encompassing Love, a law of harmony, etc and realizes ones being as not material but as the image and likeness of God, Spirit, Soul, Thought is transformed, reformations takes place, and healing is inevitable. In physical science conclusions are made through trial and error, applying the same equation/experiment over and over and seeing the same results each time. So it is with Christian Science. Through the application of the understanding of God and His creation, thought is uplifted. We feel we see this in the healing of material conditions, but the true healing and reformation takes place in consciousness.
As we apply this principles to live the dream of material existence becomes less powerful and we find we are able to see the spiritual qualities and realities of things more consistently and with greater clarity.
I hope that sheds light on your question.

January 24, 2012 at 1:02 pm #54106
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MikeDavis

Hi Gabriel,

Mrs. Eddy gives an explanation of the virgin birth of Jesus on pages 29 and 30 of Science and Health. I’m not sure why you would think that this explanation requires that God be aware of mortal existence.

January 24, 2012 at 2:41 pm #54117
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Gordon

Awhile back I started living with a roommate. My roommate of course isn’t a Christian Scientist, and is a bit younger than me, but he said something to me awhile back that I think relates to this discussion. He was going to be traveling home (which was out of state) for the holidays to see family and a number of old friends from high school. Apparently some of his friends were planning on experimenting a bit with some illegal drugs, and he had been invited to join them and was considering that. I told him, “you really don’t want to do that…”

Now honestly I don’t believe he did; I think he was protected that weekend and led to do some other things instead. But later I realized something, namely that whether or not he partook in that sinful scene was not as important as the thought behind it. Whether he did or didn’t was not the final judgment or the deciding factor as to whether or not he was “being a bad person” or what have you. The fact that he had to consider it in the first place was the real problem!

I was reminded of how Jesus revealed how serious the demands of the Ten Commandments are to the Jews of his day. They all knew the Ten Commandments, and speaking to the seventh, he raised the bar significantly when he told them, “you think that sleeping with another woman is committing adultery, but I tell you that if you so much as look at another woman and daydream lustful thoughts about her, you have already broken the commandment and committed adultery.” So it’s not as much about whether we actually do something in matter; it’s about where our thinking is at. The same with my roommate, the “sin” wasn’t so much whether he were to try illegal drugs or not, but the fact that he was seriously contemplating it was already a sin.

Now on the bright side of things, I’ve been reading through the Bible with some friends, and noticed that Numbers 15 talks all about the fact that if you commit a sin out of ignorance — not really realizing that what you’re doing is a sin — then that is not as severe as partaking in something that you know is a sin. And a large portion of the time I think people are driven to do things that are at best questionable out of ignorance. And I’m not talking about a simple ignorance of what is a “good” activity versus a “bad” activity, I’m talking about being ignorant of their true nature as the immortal, perfect child of God who has no need for such things.

Speaking to your first couple of examples, Newt Gingrich asking his wife for an “open marriage” is really just the manifestation of the adulterous thought that was already there. The particulars of how it manifest are really inconsequential. I don’t see God as being overly concerned or even aware of those particulars, but I do see Him as playing a role in exposing and changing where consciousness is at. What needs changing and repenting of is the underlying thought, which represents a consciousness turned away from God and looking at matter. So when I think about these bigger questions of “what is God aware of?” that’s what comes to mind: not the particulars of the human situation, but where our consciousness is at.

Jesus once addressed a crowd saying this:
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

He knew where their consciousness was at, and accordingly he knew that it was inevitable that they would act out sinful behaviors before they actually acted them out. What really needs redeeming in that case is not as much the sinful behavior itself, but the desire to act out that sinful behavior in the first place. And it’s not as much about simply scolding people into submission; it’s about replacing the thought that one needs to find satisfaction outside of God with the understanding that they are cherished, deeply appreciated, and already completely satisfied. But before that understanding is not only acknowledged but also proved, God still calls out, “Adam, where art thou?” As Mrs. Eddy says…

"Consciousness, where art thou? Art thou dwelling in the belief that mind is in matter, and that evil is mind, or art thou in the living faith that there is and can be but one God, and keeping His commandment?" Until the lesson is learned that God is the only Mind governing man, mortal belief will be afraid as it was in the beginning, and will hide from the demand, "Where art thou?" This awful demand, "Adam, where art thou?" is met by the admission from the head, heart, stomach, blood, nerves, etc.: "Lo, here I am, looking for happiness and life in the body, but finding only an illusion, a blending of false claims, false pleasure, pain, sin, sickness, and death."

January 24, 2012 at 10:57 pm #54148
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Moving-Forward

Hey Gabriel,
Mrs. Eddy’s explanation of Jesus as “the offspring of Mary’s self-conscious communion with God” (Science and Health 29-30) gets me thinking that Jesus appeared on Earth not because God saw messed-up children who needed a savior but rather because Mary had such a clear understanding of God as the only Father-Mother that she demonstrated this understanding in her experience. To everyone else that demonstration appeared to be the arrival of a human being who brought a message of salvation, but I think what was really going on was that, through her spiritual prayer and listening, Mary received the revelation that God is truly, as MBE also says, “the only author of man” (S&H 29). She saw her own thought completely healed, in other words, of the false belief that man is created materially and, as a result, she reflected more clearly than anyone else, before or since, the spiritual nature of conception. Perhaps that makes Mary the first real Christian Scientist – hmmm…!

January 26, 2012 at 2:21 am #54379
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Gabriel

There are a number of interesting ideas presented in the responses here and I can’t comment on everything I’ve thought of regarding this topic right now, but I will add some thoughts I had based on the responses and thinking about this more.

In many way my question is closely related to the earlier thread asking whether Christian Science is a science. However, it seemed to me that the impetus behind that question was analyzing why CS does not follow the scientific methodology in verifying its hypotheses. And the general consensus seemed to be that material evidence cannot be used to evaluate the working of CS because CS is based on spiritual ideas. Instead verification of the correctness of the hypotheses of CS is something that comes through spiritual revelation. It was not stated in this way of course, and I’m sure there are variations of opinions on the subject and I don’t claim my summary is authoritative. But essentially the theology of CS teaches that the testimony of the material senses is not legitimate, thus CS cannot be evaluated simply based on how its influences things which appear to exist in a material form.

My question in this thread is of a different nature, it is essentially how are the hypotheses that form the basis of CS theology communicated to man in the first place. In the case of material science the process by which a hypothesis is formed is actually somewhat subjective as well. It typically boils down to a combination of intuition associated with an understanding of the problem, and experimentation to see if the proposed explanation is correct.

The important point is that in the case of the scientific method the phenomena which the scientist seeks to understand and explain are themselves unaware of the state of human thinking about them. For instance in the previous thread there was some discussion about the idea of paradigm shift, but it’s important to note that the paradigm shifts that seem to occur are in human understanding, not in the physical phenomena themselves.

Now we could imagine that Christian Science could work in a similar way. We could imagine that there is a set of divine laws governing the spiritual universe and that we are able to discover and understand those laws as a result of our interaction with the spiritual universe. And like with material science, we could imagine that we are helped in furthering our understanding by learning from things that other people have learned and explained before. In material science no one starts from a blank slate, instead research requires first studying existing work in one’s field of interest and then beginning work on solving unanswered questions. So it would be possible for a similar methodology to exist for God to communicate ideas to man. In this way the ideas themselves would be perfect and eternal, and it would only be the human understanding of them that was growing and developing.

However, it seems to me that the process of supernatural revelation does not fit within this philosophical framework. For instance if the virgin birth were somehow indicative of a generally advanced state of human thinking, then it seems that it should be possible for this to occur in more cases than just that of Mary the mother of Jesus.

We are told in S&H that “Jesus was the offspring of Mary’s self-conscious communion with God.” My question then is should this sort of communion with God be viewed as a unique event that would never be repeated? If so then why? If it is simply an application of some general principle then it seems that this logically implies that the event could occur in more than one case. S&H goes on to say “Hence he could give a more spiritual idea of life than other men, and could demonstrate the Science of Love—his Father or divine Principle.” It seems to me that this seems to imply that the conditions associated with Jesus’s birth gave him a special ability that cannot be attained by man under normal circumstances in this world.
Furthermore it seems like the theories that CS associates with Jesus’s life imply that we was sent to fulfill a mission to help struggling humanity rise above the limitations of material sense. But doesn’t the very fact that Jesus had this mission imply that God is aware of humanity’s struggles? If we go back to the methodology of human science (or math) the understanding of new ideas is not associated with the ideas themselves knowing that they are misunderstood and sending some special messenger to humanity to help them learn the truth.

That is why it seems to me that acts of supernatural divine revelation (such as the birth and resurrection of Jesus) would imply that God is aware of material existence. Because if God were not aware of this condition then these unrepeatable miraculous events would not have occurred. Anyway these are some of my thoughts on this subject right now. I would be interested to hear what ideas other people have.

January 26, 2012 at 11:15 am #54389
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Gordon

I feel like I’ve quoted the following things before. The first is from page 30 in a little book titled No and Yes by Mary Baker Eddy, which is in Prose Works:

Is Sin Forgiven?

The law of Life and Truth is the law of Christ, destroying all sense of sin and death. It does more than forgive the false sense named sin, for it pursues and punishes it, and will not let sin go until it is destroyed, -- until nothing is left to be forgiven, to suffer, or to be punished. Forgiven thus, sickness and sin have no relapse. God's law reaches and destroys evil by virtue of the allness of God.

He need not know the evil He destroys, any more than the legislator need know the criminal who is punished by the law enacted. God's law is in three words, "I am All;" and this perfect law is ever present to rebuke any claim of another law. God pities our woes with the love of a Father for His child, -- not by becoming human, and knowing sin, or naught, but by removing our knowledge of what is not. He could not destroy our woes totally if He possessed any knowledge of them. His sympathy is divine, not human. It is Truth's knowledge of its own infinitude which forbids the genuine existence of even a claim to error. This knowledge is light wherein there is no darkness, -- not light holding darkness within itself. The consciousness of light is like the eternal law of God, revealing Him and nothing else.

Also, you’ll want to check out her whole essay titled “The Saviour’s Mission” starting on page 59 of the little book called Unity of Good, also in Prose Works. The essay is too long to quote here in its entirety, but it begins with this:

If there is no reality in evil, why did the Messiah come to the world, and from what evils was it his purpose to save humankind? How, indeed, is he a Saviour, if the evils from which he saves are nonentities?

Jesus came to earth; but the Christ (that is, the divine idea of the divine Principle which made heaven and earth) was never absent from the earth and heaven; hence the phraseology of Jesus, who spoke of the Christ as one who came down from heaven, yet as "the Son of man which is in heaven." (John iii. 13.) By this we understand Christ to be the divine idea brought to the flesh in the son of Mary.

Salvation is as eternal as God. To mortal thought Jesus appeared as a child, and grew to manhood, to suffer before Pilate and on Calvary, because he could reach and teach mankind only through this conformity to mortal conditions; but Soul never saw the Saviour come and go, because the divine idea is always present.

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