Healed!
Monday, February 20th, 2012, 9:00pm EDT
Audio only
In this Time4Thinkers Live chat, we’re looking at spiritual healing up close with Doug Jenkins, a professional logger from Missouri who was crushed by a falling tree and rushed to a hospital. But not before he’d managed to reach into his pocket and call his wife and a Christian Science practitioner for immediate prayer. Doug describes how he was thinking and praying as he moved swiftly from the intensive care unit back to his home without requiring the surgery or extensive drugs recommended. We invite you to listen to Doug’s experience and join us for a discussion with him and his wife, Kerry, and the practitioner, Ron Mangelsdorf, about this unmistakable proof of the healing power of prayer.
Doug and Kerry met as students at Principia College, a school for Christian Scientists. They were married the following year, and after graduating returned to Doug’s home state of Alaska. After two seasons of farming in south central Alaska, they settled in Fairbanks, just south of the arctic circle. They built three log homes together, raised and ran sled dogs, and lived without plumbing or electricity until their second daughter was born. Kerry entered the full-time public practice of Christian Science in 1987 while Doug devoted everything to professional auto racing for a short time when the family moved to Missouri. The family grew larger with the addition of 3 boys. Doug now operates a classic car restoration shop and a positive impact timber products company.
Ron Mangelsdorf is a Christian Science practitioner and teacher living in Alaska. His sense of daily living is best described by Mary Baker Eddy’s statement, “We live in an age of Love’s divine adventure to be All-in-all.” In his mid-twenties, he moved from Chicago to Alaska. At the time he felt he had heard “The Call of the Wild,” but later discovered it was really the call of God. What started out as a great Alaska adventure soon shifted to “Love’s divine adventure”–and what an exciting journey it has been. Along the path, he met the love of his life, and together they raised three children, built a home, and have worked side-by-side every day for the cause of Christian Science.
Christian Science lecturer, Chet Manchester, is the host for this chat.
Fantastic. Thank you. I would LOVE to hear more.
Wish I could listen, but the message says, “Your browser doesn’t support HTML 5 Audio Playback.” Boo.
Sorry about that. You should now be able to listen to the replay of the live chat, which includes the prerecorded teaser.
Thank you for the feedback.
I love these talks you are doing and I would love to be alerted even one day before. My message re the talk just arrived an hour or so before
love it! sharing with friends :)
Wish I could hear it-nothing happens when I try to start it.
I cant get this to begin.
I can’t get this to work
Julie, the replay will be up later today–right here.
the replay is now up! please click on the play button in the middle of the large photo at the top of the page.
I can’t get it to start.
The replay isn’t up yet, but will be soon. Please check back.
Thank you for sharing this healing so gracefully.
All of the elements in the presentation conjoined naturally to convey a beautiful and helpful message.
One of the most special things I gained from hearing this healing is relief from being strident with other people. I really wish to emulate in every area of life the peace and grace Doug expressed with the hospital staff and doctors.
Thank you to each of you for illuminating this path of grace.
Can’t get it to play past 5:02
The unpacking of the healing was very very helpful. And hearing first hand voices. Keep up the good work. I’d very much like to hear more of these detailed explorations of healing. I usually listen to sp. com chats and love them. This is my first time for an extended discussion on time 4 thinkers. Yeah. Keep this going.
Could these chats become available as podcasts? I love hearing the spirituality.com chats on my IPod as I walk outdoors. I really don’t like just sitting and listening….
thanks.
Hi Brenda,
All the live chats are available on iTunes! Just search for Time4Thinkers in the iTunes store :-)
Thanks, everyone for sharing! I really enjoyed the inspiration from this chat.
Dear Friends – all,
It was encouraging, inspiring, and uplifting to hear of this healing and all the lives that were touched and made better by it. Thank you Doug, Ron, and Kerry for sharing it with the world.
God bless,
Bruce Brooks
This is inspired; to have a discussion about the work done. I love the understanding that all shared and especially how Doug interacted with the doctors and staff. I’ll be feasting on all the inspired thought I heard today for some time to come. Thank you for making this possible.
Have tried several times to listen to the talk on Healing. Haven’t been able to hear it all. It stops about 3/4 of the way. Hope you can fix this. It’t a wonderful talk. Thanks for the inspiring thoughts.
Hello dear friends — I thought I’d share with you comments on this story from a friend who is a medical professional, and also very interested in spiritual healing.
Other than keeping the family’s spirits up, she couldn’t clearly see the effect of Christian Science in this story. It’s common, she said, for medical professionals to investigate and share with the patient worst-case-scenario possibilities. Also common for a patient’s condition to stabilize, so that a day or two after an accident those dire possibilities turn out not to be true. Finally, she said that broken bones put in a brace for several months do heal — even when patients are atheists.
This story, she said, reminds her of other healings I’ve sent her that may not make the best case for Christian Science. For example, a paramedic thought someone may have broken several bones, but when they got to the hospital nothing was broken. Was that a healing? Or an overcautious paramedic? Another example was when a Christian Scientist “healed” an illness that, she said, usually becomes asymptomatic after one to two years.
I should explain that my friend conveyed all this to me with great kindness. She’s very interested in Christian Science, and celebrates our indisputable healings. But she hopes we’ll be more careful about how we share our experiences. She says: “Do you want to preach to the choir? Or help the whole world?”
I thought I should share what my friend said, and give the family a chance to respond. Perhaps we misunderstood the story? Perhaps there are details that didn’t come out clearly? For example, why did Doug seem to need surgery one day, but not need surgery the next day?
Thank you so much!
Violet, I would be very interested in hearing your friend’s ideas about how we can share these healing experiences in a way that “helps the whole world” – which is certainly our intent. We asked Doug to relate what happened as realistically and factually as he could. As our recording states, hospital scans revealed broken back, ribs, leg, cracked vertebrae, and trauma to the heart. The attending surgeon urged immediate surgery; and there was great concern about the condition of Doug’s heart. The fact that he was able to walk out of the hospital on his own three days later and resume his logging work the following week was impressive – even to the nurses and doctors. It’s hard to see how your friend can only credit Christian Science treatment in this case with “keeping the family’s spirits up” given all the medical evidence. But perhaps there are some further details that Doug and Kerry can provide that will help to fill out the story.
I very truly appreciate your note.
I think she’d love to hear a clear “before and after” on anything that was considered a CS healing. Why did the doctor recommend surgery? Did something change overnight so that surgery wasn’t necessary?
Did the doctors believe there was trauma to the heart? Or were they just concerned that there might be trauma? Did something change — before and after — to indicate a healing?
Also, she asked whether the bones kitting together over several months in a brace was considered a CS healing. It didn’t seem so to her because a cast or brace is often the conventional medical treatment for broken bones.
She wondered too what kind of work Doug was doing a week later. Paperwork? Supervision? Actual logging? To her, his return to work indicated a wonderful and unusual attitude — but it wasn’t necessarily evidence that a healing had occurred.
Let me emphasize again that my friend is deeply interested in spiritual healing, and genuinely trying to help. I hope her questions don’t seem disrespectful toward you or the guests on the program. Thank you again for your quick response.
Given your friend’s genuine interest in spiritual healing, I can understand the kinds of questions she has raised. It also makes me think, as Chet mentioned, we still have a ways to go when it comes to sharing Christian Science “in a way that helps the whole world”. I agree we could have been clearer in presenting the “before and after” picture. An earlier audio recording of Doug’s healing did go into more detail, but that version was edited down to the six minute account heard during the chat. Hopefully, Chet’s comment and Doug’s post bring out more specifics that may not have been clear in the chat.
At the time of the healing, it was very evident that things were changing quickly, from a picture of dying to living; from an emergency to a stability; from an urging of immediate surgery to no surgery; from being crushed by a falling tree one day to being up and about four days later. By any measure - medical or spiritual - it was a remarkable turn around that resulted in a complete healing.
Trying to explain what happens when a healing occurs often raises many questions. That’s what happened when Jesus healed a man that had been blind since birth. The healing sparked quite a debate amongst the disciples, Pharisees, the public, and the man’s parents. The Bible states the people “question[ed] the miracle”. The man who had been healed silenced all the questions by declaring “one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.” (John 9:25) Ultimately, healing will answer every question and verify our theology.
Thank you SO much for sharing this. These types of stories are so inspiring, and GREAT for sharing the healing power of the Truth with friends!
Violet:
I’m grateful for serious thinkers like your friend. Looking carefully into every detail is a grand way to gain deep understanding. I’m not the least bit offended by the concerns you’ve shared on her behalf.
I guess the most impressive part of this experience for me is the protection I experienced. I wish I were a movie maker or a writer so I could better share the emotions I felt during the accident. I was clearly facing the opportunity to die and I simply protested, knowing that the protest was based on the very truth of being. I have had three other opportunities in my life similar to this, so it felt like familiar territory. I really was not fearful at any time during the accident and the time after.
Through my study of Christian Science I have discovered, as I phrased above, the very truth of being. I know why man is here, I know who made me and why, and what my purpose is. Physical science is constantly making discoveries that improve man’s understanding of the physical universe. I read about this work and I find it very interesting. There are questions that haven’t been answered over the ages, though, and new questions are constantly presenting themselves about how matter works. Christian Science has presented the truth of being clearly, giving me answers that are truly satisfying.
So sure, some may feel it was luck that I lived through this, another day I may not be so lucky. But I don’t accept this, and I feel a kind of peace that is based in something different that being grateful I’m lucky. My wife got sewn up after the birth of our first child, but other than this there has been no medical intervention in this family since Kerry and I were married 29 years ago. With 5 children and all of the terrific physically challenging and dangerous adventures we’ve had I feel that we’ve probably run out of luck and that there has to be something to this whole prayer-based thought.
When I left the hospital on Friday I was wearing a sling for my broken shoulder, a cast on my leg, and a brace that went from my knee to my chest. I got rid of the cast and sling right away, but wore the back brace as directed for four months.
I walked about 4 miles the following Friday after flying for 6 hours and began hard physical occupational labor that next week; operating a chainsaw, hauling limbs, loading firewood and log length timber. A few weeks later I drove a semi truck 1800 miles across Canada back home to Missouri. Sure, I’m strong and determined, but I think this kind of rapid progress speaks to something other than just physical strength. I’m sorry if this sounds hollow or simply like another peculiar anecdote, but it doesn’t feel that way to me. I suppose my experience is somewhat limited since, unlike your good friend, I spend most of my time around people that are not needing medical assistance, but I don’t normally see folks who’ve been hurt like I was getting around so easily so quickly. The folks I work with were all fairly amazed at the rapid recovery.
I’m not exactly sure why the heart folks gave up. I asked one of them what they were up to and he said there were things in the blood that indicated heart trauma, but that the tests kept coming back with different evidence. I didn’t ask if this was normal or expected, I was just grateful and didn’t go looking for trouble!
I did get pretty specific with the spinal surgeon, though, and I made him show me photos and all. He felt I was very fortunate that the breakage did not damage my spinal cord. He explained that surgery would speed up the healing. The fracture was to L3, he called it a burst fracture. When I looked at the photos it looked like someone had stomped on a muffin; the bone was squirting out in all directions and was quite a bit shorter that it was supposed to be. He said that surgery would gather up all the stuff that was spread around so it could heal. Yuk. I’m glad I went home and got back to work, that seems just fine! Today I happily and comfortably put in another 10 hour day working in the forest and doing mechanic work on the logging equipment that would be a physical challenge to any man.
I hope I have not sounded like a radical nut. Christian Science is very unusual for sure, we don’t see many folks in the world relying on prayer for every physical need, and I understand why your friend is a little put off by this situation. I understand that the little bit that we shared on the website may seem inconclusive. I sure wish I could do a better job of sharing what I really felt. I’m sure that would answer all of your friend’s concerns. I have been wrestling with Christian Science since I was in high school, every day, doing what I could, studying and praying. This one little thing all by itself may be inconclusive, but in the perspective of the decades I’ve been devoted to spiritual healing and discovery it fits in beautifully.
Thank you! This is most helpful in prayers to meet the challenges of accidents. God really is what is always present no matter what the material senses suggestions to the contrary. Twice while on runaway horses (you would have thought I’d have learned the first time!) I prayed with the idea “There is no power apart from God!”* over and over I repeated this as the horse ran and I was unable to get it to respond. In the first case very clearly I heard “Duck” as I flew off when she stopped suddenly. I rolled and when I got up realized I had missed hitting a rock. I walked away, a bit shaken, but mostly grateful for the awareness of the power of Love present. In the second case I also fell when the horse swerved quickly, however once again I got up and was fine. Love is always taking care of all of us, even if it seems otherwise. God, Love, is always present and in complete control of Its creation.
S&H 228:25
There is no power apart from God. Omnipotence has all-power…
Thanks so much to Ron and Doug for their replies! I think my friend will be satisfied with the details shared in Doug’s post.
What I’ve learned here is that those outside CS, especially with a medical background, are looking for that clear change of material circumstances. The before and after of some specific indicator — a blood test or an x-ray. And to them, it’s persuasive evidence of spiritual healing only if the result is medically unexpected. Not like that published “healing” I sent to this same friend, where she said people with that illness usually become asymptomatic after a year or two.
These conversations with my friend have been eye opening. Makes me wonder if we should involve medical professionals in our efforts to share CS healings with a wider audience.
Thank you all again for responding with care and concern. This discussion makes me even more appreciative of the Truth that sets us free.
@violet –
I understand the desire to see clear cut examples of experiences that are medically unexpected. At the same time, I think it’s important to remember that what’s biggest and brightest about a spiritual healing doesn’t have anything to do with a change in matter. Even if something may have disappeared eventually, the mental shift is the big bonus. And unfortunately, that’s the stuff that doesn’t translate well verbally.
I think of it this way, I can describe to you what sugar is, the way it looks, how small the granules are, even what it tastes like to me, but if you haven’t tasted sugar, you really don’t know exactly what I’m talking about. You have to take the description on faith.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to explain our healings better and in language that makes sense to people unfamiliar with Christian Science, but I do think that the solution is trickier than just having medical documentation. In Doug’s case, there was medical documentation and maybe we didn’t think to keep in enough details.
Once I was healed in the hospital with 3 witnesses — 2 nurses and my husband. It was instantaneous — near death one minute, perfectly fine then next. All three would’ve agreed that something happened to invoke the change. I don’t know that any of them would’ve said it was because of God. And they were right there next to me. What I felt was undeniably God, but saying it didn’t make them feel it.
I agree. Maybe I’m a little slow and didn’t get it first time around. But Doug’s post and yours have helped me understand this healing in a deeper way. The chaos of a medical emergency, where there are so many possible outcomes. The decisive moments, which all occurred in thought (Doug’s, Kerry’s, Ron’s). I especially like where Doug says: “I was clearly facing the opportunity to die and I simply protested……” No medical professional would deny the importance of that moment, and others like it. It will be very interesting to continue this conversation with my friend!
Thankyou so much! This was wonderful to hear. This beautiful healing reminded me of the healing related in the “We Knew Mary Baker Eddy” series of the man who was brought into Mrs Eddy’s home after being run over by a heavy wagon. He seemed near death but soon got up and declared that he was all right!
I look forward to hearing more healing experiences, the heart and soul of Christian Science.
Love to you all.
Thanks to you all for this forum!!!
The honesty, humility, tenderness, charity, consecration and love oozed consistently by all throughout this chat.
As I listened, I continued to feel humbled and drawn to know and feel God more… THANK YOU!!!!!
Heartfelt thanks to all involved. This chat was one of the most real and accessible to the non-CS listener. I love the format, and look forward to sharing this with those who are afraid to commit to attending a CS lecture. The gentleness, inclusiveness and love of all participants is tangible.