Medicine and spirituality: the new dialogue
Monday, February 6th, 2012, 9:00pm EDT
Audio only
Whether you’re trying to beat a cold or society is trying to beat rising healthcare costs, more physicians and researchers today believe that spirituality is an important part of the remedy. Harvard Professor and co-author of The Soul of Medicine, Dr. John Peteet, is one of them. In his book, he invites religious thinkers and physicians from many faith backgrounds to share their experiences about the spiritual dimension of health and healing, and why it’s so crucial for society to understand more about it. Download the flyer if you would like to promote the event.
Time4thinkers host, Robin Hoagland, will interview Dr. Peteet and Christine Driessen, a Christian Science practitioner and teacher, who was invited to contribute a chapter to The Soul of Medicine. Driessen has enjoyed years of dialogue with doctors and med students and is familiar with the assumptions and suspicions that often surround any discussion about the prayer-based approach to healing that Christian Scientists practice. Hoagland, who’s just completed a review of Peteet’s book for the Christian Science Journal, will guide this thought-provoking discussion about how medicine and spirituality - so often thought to be foes - are enjoying renewed dialogue.
John Peteet, M.D., is an associate professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, and has his professional offices at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts. He is a co-director of the Harvard Medical School course “Spirituality and Healing in Medicine,” along with Dr. Michael D’Ambra. When John and Michael realized that there wasn’t a textbook for this course that helps to “focus attention on the clinical relevance of patients’ and clinicians’ spirituality,” they set out to write such a book! They invited authorities in the field of medicine, and experts in nine different faith traditions, and put together the book “The soul of medicine.”
Christine Driessen has spent the last 12 years, as a Christian Science practitioner and lecturer, dialoguing with the medical and interfaith communities about the medicine of Mind, God, Spirit, and the effectiveness of scientific prayer in healing disease. For four generations, she and her family have relied exclusively on Christian Science for healing and found it very reliable. Christine has found that people from many different religious traditions are exploring spiritual healing and she enjoys sharing with them how effective prayer can be when approached from an entirely spiritual basis. She drew on all this experience when she was asked to write the chapter on Christian Science in the “Soul of Medicine.”
Robin Hoagland is a Christian Science practitioner, lecturer and teacher. In college, she developed a raised-eyebrow reputation as the only rugby player who didn’t drink. What’s more, she treated her injuries and illnesses through prayer, which definitely set her apart. It was well worth it, as she was permanently cured of recurrent depression, overcame an eating disorder, gained confidence academically, and developed rewarding relationships. Although Robin now dedicates her full time to her true love—helping others through Christian Science, we will be calling on her past experience working in public radio in her role as host of this Time4Thinkers Live chat.
Dr peteet, do u think one of the reasons that a focus on the spiritual aspect of a patient is beneficial to their health, regardless of their faith, religion or denomination – is because no matter how “God” is viewed, that that “power” is a universal healing influence experienced in the individual (patient’s) thought?
I appreciate the simplicity and the clarity of your (Christine’s)explanations regarding the metaphysical nature of science (e.g., mathematics). And why religious science must, if it is truely religious, be applicable for everyone to study, to use, and to apply in their daily lives.
I have read in the Chicago Tribune recently that many people have been forced to wait for medical operations, because of the current confusion over some of the new Medicare laws. And many of these individuals are actually starting to improve in health without the coveted medical help. Perhaps when people are denied instant medical diagnosis, they automatically pray for help… and receive it!
Very interesting point, Steve! It reminds me of the quote, “Man’s extremity is God’s opportunity!”
Human ways and means have always been limited and fraught with problems. Is. 55:8-11 quotes God as saying, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
Then the passage continues and explains why we want to trust the divine power over human wisdom or ability. Human ability, no matter how developed or intelligent, is limited, and often fails or falls short, but the divine never fails when we understand it is the only power.
“For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
I’m hearing more and more how people in the public, as well as doctors and nurses, are finding that they can’t accomplish the good they want to accomplish without the support of a Higher Power.
Impressive! Good to hear a physician speak of the importance of spirituality when treating patients. And that there is more open mindedness by physicians regarding the beneficial effect of prayer for treatment.
I thank God from the bottom of my heart for making this kind of cooperation between medical practitioners and spiritual healers possible.This constitute a great hope for mankind.
Thousand thanks for Doctor John Peteet,M.D,Christine Driessen,CSB and Robin Hoagland,CSB.
May Our Almighty God bless us all in this strong desire to better health care individualy and collectively.
With kindest regards,
One of the questions we began to address last night but didn’t get back to was “What is the difference between scientific prayer in Christian Science and blind faith?” I mentioned the blind faith that Paul talks about in Acts 17 when he saw the Athenian altar to the “unknown God”. Paul explained that God is knowable as the supreme power and creative intelligence of the universe. He continues explaining that prayer is effective when we understand that we live, move, breathe and have our being in Spirit, not in matter.
Scientific prayer in Christian Science is not a human activity. It is appealing to divine law. I was a lawyer for many years, and if a law cannot be relied on and cannot be enforced, then it is not a law. Mary Baker Eddy found that Genesis 1, the actual account of creation, is a scientific basis for prayer and that it establishes God’s law of perfect creator and perfect creation.
This law applies to everyone, Genesis 1 says: male and female–every single one of us, no matter what our religious beliefs or non-beliefs, are made in the divine image and likeness, are blessed and given dominion (the ability to demonstrate God’s power for good) in the human experience. It says God causes us to prosper, succeed and multiply–not diminish, lose, or fail. And Eccl. 3:14 says whatsoever God does is forever. Nothing can be put to it nor anything taken from it.”
There are also many passages that talk about the perfection of God’s creation and how God perfects us: for example, Deut. 32:4: Ps. 18:30, 32; Matt. 5:48. Jesus commands us to be perfect as our Father is perfect and then explains how obedience to the two great Commandments enable us to do this: 1) Love God, Spirit, supremely; have no other gods or powers; 2) Love your neighbor as yourself, as God made you and as God loves you. This is a scientific basis for prayer that never fails when we are consistently obedient to this divine law.
One question I saw fly by that made me think was for Dr. Peteet. The person asked if he thought that Christian Science was helping this new dialog about spirituality and medicine at all. Can you get him to answer this?
Robin asked me what I meant by “metaphysics” when I say that mathematics, like Christian Science, is a metaphysical science (as opposed to material sciences such as physics or pathology). The dictionary in Mrs. Eddy’s time, Noah Webster’s 2nd ed. 1860, defines “metaphysics” as: “The science of the principles and causes of all things existing; hence the science of mind. This science comprehends ontology, or the science which treats the nature, essence and qualities, or attributes of being.”
[As a side note, Mrs. Eddy made this provision in our Church Manual, p. 47:8 – “it shall be the privilege of a Christian Scientist to confer with an M.D. on Ontology, or the Science of being.” That’s what we were doing in this live chat!
Thanks Christine, John, and Robin: Thanks so much for a FEARLESS, OPEN Discussion of a vital discussion of recognizing God “as the ONLY scientific healer” coming to “the front”. Also,this illustrates how “Christian Science sub- serves the interests of Medical Faculties and Theologians”(Mary Baker Eddy in “Prose Works”)…..I enjoy it thoroughly….Robert Weiss
The more I study Christ Jesus’ teaching in order to learn to heal disease and raise the dead as he said we could do if we followed his teachngs, the more humbling it becomes.
There’s no question that the Science which Mrs. Eddy describes in her textbook, Science and Health, enabled her to heal as Christ Jesus did and to raise the dead. But it is not magic nor the privilege of a private club. It is a science which requires faithful study and practice. And it requires absolute obedience to God’s law of Love.
Jesus explained that we cannot heal if we are judging others; we cannot heal unless we are loving our enemies (so-called), blessing them, praying for them (Sermon on the Mount, Matt.5:43-48 and Matt. 7:1-5 ). In fact Jesus condemned self-righteousness, because we are all working on our salvation and even as students of this Christ Science, we have barely caught a glimpose of the infinite nature of divine Love, God.
Job 32:8 says, “There is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty gives them understanding.” It does not say, “There is a spirit in the members of this religious organization or that religious organization”–those are human creations. It says that every single person in this universe is created by God, Spirit (Gen. 1) and therefore each one of us–whether we call ourselves Christians, Muslims, Jewish, Hindu, atheist–we all have the divine inspiration speaking to us, guiding us, giving us the wisdom we need to be healers for the world. To the degree that we listen to the inspiraiton of divine Love, to that degree only, will we be effective healers–whether we call ourselves Christian Science practitioners, doctors, ministers, etc. Divine Love alone is the power or God or creative intelligence of the universe. To the extent that we fill our hearts, minds, souls with the unconditional, pure, compassionate, tender, patient love of God, to that degree will we be able to heal.
I’ve met doctors, nurses, Rabbis, Catholic nuns and priests, Buddhist monks, Christian ministers, social workers, teachers who have manifested this unselfish, nonjudgmental, compassionate love and have brought healing to peope’s lives. Ghandhi was a Hindu who loved the teachings of Christ Jesus and lived those teachings. Doctors Without Borders (Medecins Sans Frontiers) are people who devote their lives 24/7 to helping people find relief from suffering, often putting their own lives on the line.
So for those of us who are studying Christian Science as a healing method, we can ask ourselves, “Are we doing the same or better? How many people did we heal this week–in the middle of the night, on a battle field, in our community? How many people have we raised from the dead this year?” It is humbling. We all have so much to learn about this Christ love and how it heals! Don’t we!
How do (or how can) medical doctors reconcile, not their loving attitudes, but the basis of what they do with the opening line of MBE’s Scientific Statement of Being? Aren’t the two approaches fundamentally antithetical? They take opposite views regarding the reality of matter, no?
Good question, Thomas! You’re right, on the one hand, to say that Spirit and matter are opposites and one denies the existence of the other so that it is not possible to demonstrate that health is our natural state of being if we try to combine both a material and a spiritual approach. But it is not just medical doctors who are grappling with the evidence of the 5 physical senses, which seems to be so real. Every single one of us, including students of Christian Science, are tempted daily with physical sense testimony through pleasure and pain in matter.
Since Christ Jesus never allowed the physical senses to deceive or control him, but always trusted spiritual sense–the Christ message of perfect God, perfect man–to govern him, he was able to instantly cure disease and raise people from death. Every person in this human experience is daily grappling with the evidence of the 5 physical senses. Sometimes we listen only to spiritual sense, but too often we allow ourselves to be deceived by the material senses. To the degree that we listen only to spiritual sense, we are able to heal and raise the dead. So a question to ask yourself is, “How many people have I cured of disease or raised from the dead this week?”
All of us are learning day-by day more about what is true and reliable and what is false and deceptive. The Bible explains (Is. 64:4 and I Cor. 2:9) that the material senses cannot testify truly to health because health is a spiritual state of being. “Eye hath not seen nor ear heard . . . what God has prepared for those who love (know, trust, obey) Him (Spirit).” The more each of us, including doctors, learn to trust the power of Spirit, divine Love, to heal–through spiritual qualities such as patience, hope, purity, unselfishness, forgiveness–the more each of us will discover that health is our natural state right now, and the less we will listen to the deceptive testimony of the physical senses.
I found this “chat” so very powerful! I was so impressed with what Dr. Peteet and Christine Driesen both had to say, their kind respect for each other and the excellent questions and responses by Robin Hoagland. I am going to find this book right away! Thank you for tackling this subject!
So glad to hear you enjoyed it, Kaye! if you get the book on amazon.com or Kindle, it’s important to note that there is another book by that title from two years ago. This one is published by Johns Hopkins Publishers in November of 2011, and the principal authors/editors are Dr. John Peteet and Drs Michael D’Ambra. Let us know if you find an opportunity to share it with someone from the medical field! Thank you!
Start writing here…Are these chats archived and streamed so they can be heard at a later date?
Are chats available for later listening?
Patty, yes they are available for listening. Click on the below link to go to the archive for all the chats
http://time4thinkers.com/t4t-events/
Patty, you can also click on the arrow at the top of this screen to play this one.
Debate continues about how to define spirituality, but yes, I think there are widely applicable benefits to encouraging one’s connection to a larger context. One could explain some of these in terms of the placebo effect (expectations of a positive outcome), or in terms of the sense of security and peace which can come from feeling more at one with the universe.
It’s helped in my experience with having Christine join our class, and I hope by extension though exposure to the book on which we’ve worked together.
Because of our collaboration on this book, I learned something very inspiring about Dr. Peteet! He said that every Friday morning for the last 25 years, he and 9 other men have been meeting at 6:00 a.m. to talk about the Bible and share inspiration! That is the quality of thought that these doctors are bringing to their medical practices. I forgot to mention this during our live chat. Very inspiring!
Christine, you said that “To the extent that we fill our hearts, minds, souls with the unconditional, pure, compassionate, tender, patient love of God, to that degree will we be able to heal” and that’s what Mrs Eddy tells us to do, to “be all love”. My question is how do you do this? I love my family and my friends, obviously, but I feel like I haven’t even dipped the tip of my finger nail into the ocean of the love of divine Love. How do we begin to feel and express that Love that is enough to raise the dead?
Hi Kathleen,
That’s a question we all need to be asking ourselves daily, hourly, don’t we! Mrs. Eddy wrote: “”The healing will grow more easy and be more immediate as you realize that God, Good, is all and Good is Love. You must gain Love, and lose the false sense called love. You must feel the Love that never faileth,—that perfect sense of divine power that makes healing no longer power but grace. Then you will have the Love that casts out fear and when fear is gone, doubt is gone and your work is done. Why? Because it was never undone.” (“Mary Baker Eddy–Christian Healer”, Fettweis & Warneck,, p. 146).”
We need to “lose the false sense of love”–human love based on a personal sense of right and wrong, based on human personality, desires, outlining, human sympathy–and replace it with a deeper understanding of divine Love. Love with a capital “L” refers only to God, good, divine Spirit. We do not define “love” and “goodness” according to our own desires. Spirit alone reveals the true nature of “Love” through spiritual qualities.
God sees his creation as entirely spiritual, not material, not sensual, not imbalanced, not incomplete nor imperfect. Human sympathy is not Love because it is based on a material view of people–capable of sin, sensuality, disease death. But divine Love’s creation is perfect eternally and can never be lost. Christly compassion is different than human love or sympathy. It manifests the “Love” that sees only the pure, unadulterated, perfect idea of Love’s creating. See Science and Health, page 476:32.
An understanding of this “Love”, I find, has to begin with our own thinking–praying daily, “What in my thinking is unlike the anointed?” (Mis.355:21)–unlike the Christly love demonstrated by Christ Jesus who was absolutely obedient to the laws of God, which include: “Not my will, but thine be done” and “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” Not attaching evil to person, place or thing, but recognizing and trusting the supremacy of Good and the powerlessness of evil.
Mrs. Eddy says, then healing is no longer “power” but “grace”. A human sense of love begins with “self”–human power, human will, and human ability, all of which can fail. Divine Love is manifested in “grace”–Love that lifts us out of sin and suffering by opening our eyes to the supremacy of “Spirit, divine Love” and our inherent wholeness as Love’s idea. This Love never fails!